Oh, this is going to be fun...

[moominmuppet]

On one hand, I'm very glad that things are coming together so well in terms of plans for Gramps. The house has sold, plans have been made, jajy1979 and tasharowan are going to be able to help out with preparing the house in AL... All for the good.

But, damn. Why couldn't I have gotten the heavy lifting in AL, instead of the five days in CA with Gramps? I just talked to my Mom. Oh, this is going to be fun. Nothing major that needs doing, no internet (except my cell phone interface), no pets, no DVD or VHS player, TV barely functions, Gramps is tight about electricity, so if I want to read I'd better bring a reading light with me, and no A/C in LA in the summer. Also, no functioning kitchen. *shudder* At least I'll have Mom's company, and some board games.

And that's really not the worst of it, because I will manage to find a way to read. Five days, no other distraction? I'll probably pack one bag that's nothing but books. No, the tricky part is dealing with Gramps. My conversations with Gramps since I was a teen have really stuck to about the "already awkward at 10 minutes" level. He's a good man, I respect a lot about who he is, but we have absolutely nothing in common, and he's found me utterly baffling since I was little. I'm simply not, in any way, shape, or form, his mental map of "female". Grannie was a very passive woman, who needed a lot of caretaking. Gramps was great at that. I'm about as different from Grannie as can be, and that's before we start getting into the tricky stuff. So, the tricky stuff. I asked Mom what Gramps knows about me -- I know most of the family knows most of the stuff about me (bi, poly, tattooed, etc). I've never felt a real need to bring it up with Gramps; I haven't seen him in years, and we talk for maybe 10 minutes a few times a year on the holidays. Doesn't seem worth the hassles for both of us. However, in five days, the odds that some kind of awkward question isn't going to be asked (especially since I'm 32 and unmarried) are very slim.

I'm going to see if I can survive in t-shirts instead of tank tops, and hope his vision is bad enough he doesn't notice all the tattoo bits peeking out. Mom says she's pretty sure he doesn't know much of anything, unlike the rest of the family (Grandma was incredibly supportive, Grandpa and Peggy don't seem to care, although I'm not close with them anyway, my Aunt seems pretty cool about everything, and my Godfather _rocks_). So that means questions about relationships are likely, and are likely to come up against my gut distaste for lying. I'm trying to decide if I'm willing to make an exception in this case or not. I think I might, because I'm really not sure what on earth it would accomplish -- I couldn't even get close to the actual truth without having gone so far beyond anything he's going to be able to process as to totally shut things down, and I don't think the end result of even partial disclosure would help to bring us closer together, or help him to understand me better.

jajy1979, you've spent a lot more time around him than I have -- do you have any sense of where he generally stands in GLBT stuff, what he already knows about me, or anything else I should know/be prepared for?

Comments

[compostwormbin.livejournal.com]

I think I might, because I'm really not sure what on earth it would accomplish -- I couldn't even get close to the actual truth without having gone so far beyond anything he's going to be able to process as to totally shut things down, and I don't think the end result of even partial disclosure would help to bring us closer together, or help him to understand me better.

Sometimes it's just like that. I would understand if yoy didn't make certain disclosure to your grandfather. There are things about me that I imagine my grandparents woul;d have had a similar reaction to. Just shutting down and really not being able to understand or process. In the end I think you'll know what's best and handle the situation accordingly.

[moominmuppet.livejournal.com]

*nod* Generally I'm honest for several reasons:

1) To allow me to be closer to the person by not intentionally hiding major parts of my life from them.

2) For political reasons, because being "out" humanizes all sorts of issues, not just sexual orientation.

3) Because it's too damned complicated to lie, and I'm lazy.

In this situation:

1) I don't think this is the major barrier to Gramps and I being close; I think there are just waaay too many factors there, and I don't think we're ever going to be. I don't have huge regrets about this; he's close with the boys, I was close with Grandma, it all works out ok. I also don't think I'd be able to communicate enough underlying explanation, particularly given how his mind wanders these days, to make any clarification of my life make any sense to him at all. Also, he can be very rigid and traditional, and I don't want to be trapped in a house for five days getting weird lectures.

2) I think at some point, the political effect one person is going to have really starts to diminish. At this point he's very elderly, not very mobile, and rather forgetful. The odds that there are going to be ripples from this conversation over time are pretty small.

3) I'm still not liking all the effort of having to be on my guard and prepared to dodge questions, but in this case, the hassle of not telling might actually be less than the hassle of telling, especially since it's for a set, limited amount of time.

[jajy1979.livejournal.com]

Also realize that on some level, depending on how things work out, this may be one of the last times you get to see him for any extended period of time. I don't know yet what this is going to do to our family outings, but I surmise that the trips to Nashville may stop.

[moominmuppet.livejournal.com]

*nod* I'll figure out what to discuss in the future if and when the situation arises; right now I'm just figuring out how to handle it in this situation, where he's undergoing a truly massive and stressful transition, and I'm going to be trapped in his space for an extended period of time.

[compostwormbin.livejournal.com]

Your reasoning makes sense to me.

just a thought

[mfcentral.livejournal.com]

Can you take up some of the time interviewing him and learning about his life? You could even video it-- and some of your mom too since she'll be there, so you have an oral history of his version of family stories.... Takes the focus off of you and gives you a neat record of family stuff.

That's how I always dealt with my significant other's grandma. She was really deaf so I had trouble talking to her and being heard so I would pose broad questions about her life and get her talking.
-J

Re: just a thought

[moominmuppet.livejournal.com]

Excellent idea, thanks! I don't have a video camera, but I'm sure we could get an inexpensive tape recorder of some sort.

Re: just a thought

[jajy1979.livejournal.com]

There is (or was) a Radio Shack down by the Pavillions in the shopping center, a long five or six blocks, but certainly walking distance. (There's also a Baskin Robbins down there).

Anna and I were going to talk to you about doing that anyway. With Cousin Charlie dead, only Gramps still knows all of the stories. Jim and Dad never got as good at learning them as Charlie did.

Re: just a thought

[moominmuppet.livejournal.com]

If you could email me a list of questions, I'd appreciate it. It'd help give me a good starting point.

Re: just a thought

[jajy1979.livejournal.com]

Anna has the next two days off, and if she reads LJ during that time she might have a few specifics she want's answered. I'll ponder it over the weekend.

Re: just a thought

[moominmuppet.livejournal.com]

Cool; thanks. We've got plenty of time, and it's not like I won't be able to reach you spur of the moment if I need to once I'm there.

[jajy1979.livejournal.com]

Gramps is very conservative, period. He's looking at leaving the Republicans because of Corruption but not because he's gone Liberal. He verges on a form of libertarianism politically, but he's very deep rooted in his faith and a certain level of society. The one place you might find common political ground would be in the "corruption sucks" level. I would definitely avoid any discussion of GLBT stuff with him. Just tell him you're single and be done with it. No description of "current relationships". You're legally single and that's not lying. A hell of an omission, but legit. I don't recall having told him much at all about you other than that you're on the liberal side of the spectrum. He knows that I am, though I lean libertarian enough to call myself that around him.

He is very blind, heavy cataracts, so T-shirts would probably be enough. He's also very limited in how aware he is, often repeating himself after 10 minutes or so by late afternoon. Basically the morning hours are when you'd have to dodge questions.

He likes sports, particularly basketball and baseball if you can stomach talking to him about it. Football too. He used to enjoy Paul Harvey and radio shows, the old murder mysteries and similar programs. I don't know if they have them anymore but I found a few still in the 90's. He loves his gardens, particularly the roses, so take a book or two on flowers and talk with him. He knows a lot about growing things. He also has some interesting insights into hospitals given his 25,000 volunteer hours.

If you want, Anna and I do want you to get the family stories from him. On tape or transcribed as best you can. We also need you to get the family lineages, particularly the Whitman and Van Auken sides. I suggest spending some time just letting him ramble while you have a note pad. Prod him just lightly if he starts to lose track.

His stories, particularly the war stories, he's always been closed mouthed about. He didn't start telling them until I spent the summer with him a decade ago. He's talked more over the years but as I understand it I've gotten more of them than anyone else. I probably need to spend some time with him in Sylacauga and get them taped if he'll tell them again, which is iffy. I don't know if you want to get stories about Granny, it may be too much for him given his current state to try and recall a lot of them, then again he might do better doing so. That's a judgement call.

Dad is going to leave you his computer. No porn allowed though. Sorry, it's his work computer so keep it WS. He'll use the house computer, mine, and Corey's on the trip if it's needed. You'll have the evenings to read, the light in the yard is good until about 7:30 or so, and Gramps is fading by 4 or 5 in the afternoon. A nightlight wouldn't be a bad idea if you want to read more. I suggest doing "coffee" with your friends in the late evenings, but before it gets dark. After dinner things, but clear it with Mom. Gramps has always been a stickler for a curfew of sorts. Matt and I both broke it, but I think he was more forgiving of me than Matt.

[moominmuppet.livejournal.com]

It's not so much that I can't stomach sports conversation as it is that I have absolutely no awareness or knowledge of them, so that's probably a dead end. However, the hospital stuff might be good. I'm quite certain, given every impression I've gotten from him about how he handles gender, that there's no way in hell I'd be the one he'd talk to about war stories. Even aside from being generally close-mouthed, I don't think he'd thing it's appropriate to tell those sorts of stories to a girl.

I'll feel out whether to discuss Grannie or not -- you're right, it'll definitely be a judgment call. Thanks for the reminder on the computer; I wouldn't have thought about it otherwise.

As for the curfew idea... *hrrmph* I'm 32 years old, and there to help him. I doubt I'll have reason to make an issue of it, and I don't think I'd bother in this particular circumstance, but *hrrmph*.

[jajy1979.livejournal.com]

The curfew annoyed the tar out of me too and I was almost 24, engaged to be married, and there to help with his hip. He never flat out tells you about a curfew (though he may have to Matt) but he makes no secret that he detests people out after about 9 PM. I regularly went out later when needed, though it was seldom since I was there to make sure he could function. But every once in a while I had to go out and get some air.

[moominmuppet.livejournal.com]

Thank maude for the time change... At least that'll be midnight for me.

I suppose it's unlikely he's every actually justified this view?

[forestfire.livejournal.com]

I find that vague, noncommittal answers are often the best way to avoid lying. They don't foster closeness, but in this instance the goal is really to see someone and interact with them in a pleasant way possibly for the last time, not to build a foundation for honest communication so not fostering genuine closeness is ok. I like the idea above about focusing on him and his life. As for relationships, just say something like you haven't found a life partner. Thats pretty close to the truth. You haven't found a person whom you would spend your life with in the way he'd understand that phrase to mean. Since your understanding of relationships and his are so different, you can likely sidestep the issue by pointing out a lack of a live in lover or someone with whom you have a marriage like bond and then changing the subject. In his generation, one didn't necessarily question people who remained unmarried too deeply because one didn't want to know the reasons or embarrass. He might stick to that if you encourage it by shrugging off personal/relationship questions.

[jajy1979.livejournal.com]

You've got to be careful about being vague around the family. Gramps is slipping but when he's on, he's really on. Lasts a couple hours on a good day from what I'm hearing from my father. Still, it's dicey to be too non-committal or vague with him during those times.

Sarah's right though, it should be me going out to do this while she took care of the house. I'm far more suited to it, and she's better and building and repair than I am. Unfortunately circumstances require otherwise. On the plus side, Sarah is far better with Mom than I am and Mom needs some help too.

[moominmuppet.livejournal.com]

On the plus side, Sarah is far better with Mom than I am and Mom needs some help too.

*nod* When I'm not stressing about the Gramps thing, I am seeing this as a good chance to spend some time with Mom, and I'm looking forward to that (remind me of this when I'm at my wit's end with both of them halfway through the visit)

[moominmuppet.livejournal.com]

In his generation, one didn't necessarily question people who remained unmarried too deeply because one didn't want to know the reasons or embarrass. He might stick to that if you encourage it by shrugging off personal/relationship questions.

*nod* I'm hoping that'll be the case. Damn, I really, really loathe having to go in the closet -- it's been a long time since I've had to do it for more than a half-hour or so in the most casual situations (I should clarify that I see a distinction between "I'm not going out of my way to bring this up" or "I'm explaining appropriate bits as they happen to arise" and "I'm intentionally attempting to dodge/deceive"). It's almost interesting how uncomfortable and stressed it's making me.

It's also reminding me again of how lucky I am in all the other relationships in my life.