Home today, poly rambling...
Jul. 8th, 2009 01:52 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
moominmuppetI'm exhausted and aching, but can't manage to fall asleep until I get this ramble out of my head. LJ's good for me that way.
Primary: I talked the other day about 'primary' meaning, for me, a good deal about household. A better way to explain is that it's about tackling the world as a team. It's why "platonic primary" is a valid mental category for me, although it's possible to be 'household' and 'chosen family' without being 'primary' -- that has to do with long-term plans to continue tackling the world as a team, basically. There are compatibilities necessary to that which aren't factors in non-primary relationships.
One of the deeply weird things about online dating, when I set about it with intention, is that it means that for a little while, there's a whole lot going on in terms of interactions. Just logging into OKC will do that, since 'last logged in' is a search criteria, and I'll suddenly get a blast of introductions. It's even more intense when posting a CL ad (a lot of this is because I'm female, and obviously not posting a professional escort ad). And although I'm generally hoping to only find one person I really connect with (for simplicity's sake), I never know exactly what'll happen, and when I find someone I'm really curious about and interested in, I pretty much always make exceptions to my "life is too full" rule. At one point I ended up starting dating four people basically simultaneously. It was crazy, but it ended up working out well in the long run, overall. This time 'round, out of the two CL ads, and about 60 responses, I seem to have finally found what I'm looking for, if my sense of things is correct. Really enjoyable date last night, looking forward to seeing where it goes. However, just having logged into OKC to copy/paste some profile bits means I've gotten some interesting messages there, too. Nothing so definitively interesting, but attention-piquing, at least. And I really do enjoy the conversation and exploration and figuring out whether we connect.
I rarely take rejection at that point particularly personally -- most of my ads are as much about "fair warning to everyone not compatible with me" as anything else. I joke about occasionally editing my OKC profile to "scare off more of the wrong folks". I just don't see the percentage in trying to convince people who aren't right for me that they are (I also try to send and post pics of me that aren't unreasonably good -- I'd rather people know what I actually look like than what I look like under the best of all possible circumstances). The only rough part is having to be on the rejecting side. Hate that, although I very much believe that the best policy is to let the other person know exactly where I'm at, whether that's "I really know nothing's going to happen in that direction between us" or "I think it's unlikely we'll connect, but I'm willing to be surprised, if you'd like to check it out" or whatever. The only way I manage to navigate this at all, especially in ways I consider ethical and mutually respectful of each others' humanity, is by being as honest and clear as I possibly can be, and to pay attention to what I've learned to recognize as warning signs of trainwreck potential, and not give in to the temptation to get involved with appealing people who would be really bad matches for me. And rejection is the price of exploration, either for me or for the other person, the majority of the time. That's how it works. I'm ok with that, but I hate it when it's something that gets under the other person's skin more intensely. Hurting people, even unavoidably, sucks. (my personal ethics are "never intentionally cause unnecessary pain", but sometimes it's unintentional, sometimes it's necessary)
And I try to be clear about how sex works for me... I don't sleep with someone unless I'm entirely certain I want to (and that it's not some horrible idea for some other reason). It's extremely rare for me to even kiss someone that I wouldn't take to bed, often immediately, if the circumstances allow. It means that first date for me is really all conversation. Once in a great while that ends in sex, and those people tend to remain my lovers for extended periods of time. I don't do gratuitous goodnight kisses, or messing around just because, or anything. It just isn't how I work. Either I'm sexually interested, or I'm not. Conversation is how I tell; it's why I don't do the bar and club scene; too loud for me to tell anything relevant to me about the other people. But when someone turns on my brain in the right way, it's on. A three hour conversation about the First Amendment lead to me taking P to bed the first time. With M, in college, it was talking physics and art. I'm usually about 80% accurate on whether I'm going to be sexually interested in someone solely based on IM conversations. A frequent refrain around my house: "Mmmmm... sexy, sexy braiiiiiins!" (also, "Mmmmm.... sexy, sexy politics!")
The good date last night, with D, was about four and a half hours of conversation, and if I wasn't expecting I'd have to be at work this morning (so much for that), I would've gladly stayed longer and seen just how mutual the interest is. Mmmmm.... sexy, sexy brains... I like how he thinks. I'm really psyched.
And rather randomly, I ended up clicking well enough with a guy who's coming into town for a concert next week that we've got a date to hang out in person. Don't know where it's likely to go, since I rarely get into things that are likely to be one-time, but I'm looking forward to the hanging out, regardless.
Very cute comment from my partner S, when we were trying to figure out scheduling some time around my recent spate of dates: "Hey, I'm just happy to be on the team"
I'm damned lucky in the partners I've found.
(all of this gets way more complicated when it's an interest in someone who's already a friend -- that's a whole different ball of wax)
Primary: I talked the other day about 'primary' meaning, for me, a good deal about household. A better way to explain is that it's about tackling the world as a team. It's why "platonic primary" is a valid mental category for me, although it's possible to be 'household' and 'chosen family' without being 'primary' -- that has to do with long-term plans to continue tackling the world as a team, basically. There are compatibilities necessary to that which aren't factors in non-primary relationships.
One of the deeply weird things about online dating, when I set about it with intention, is that it means that for a little while, there's a whole lot going on in terms of interactions. Just logging into OKC will do that, since 'last logged in' is a search criteria, and I'll suddenly get a blast of introductions. It's even more intense when posting a CL ad (a lot of this is because I'm female, and obviously not posting a professional escort ad). And although I'm generally hoping to only find one person I really connect with (for simplicity's sake), I never know exactly what'll happen, and when I find someone I'm really curious about and interested in, I pretty much always make exceptions to my "life is too full" rule. At one point I ended up starting dating four people basically simultaneously. It was crazy, but it ended up working out well in the long run, overall. This time 'round, out of the two CL ads, and about 60 responses, I seem to have finally found what I'm looking for, if my sense of things is correct. Really enjoyable date last night, looking forward to seeing where it goes. However, just having logged into OKC to copy/paste some profile bits means I've gotten some interesting messages there, too. Nothing so definitively interesting, but attention-piquing, at least. And I really do enjoy the conversation and exploration and figuring out whether we connect.
I rarely take rejection at that point particularly personally -- most of my ads are as much about "fair warning to everyone not compatible with me" as anything else. I joke about occasionally editing my OKC profile to "scare off more of the wrong folks". I just don't see the percentage in trying to convince people who aren't right for me that they are (I also try to send and post pics of me that aren't unreasonably good -- I'd rather people know what I actually look like than what I look like under the best of all possible circumstances). The only rough part is having to be on the rejecting side. Hate that, although I very much believe that the best policy is to let the other person know exactly where I'm at, whether that's "I really know nothing's going to happen in that direction between us" or "I think it's unlikely we'll connect, but I'm willing to be surprised, if you'd like to check it out" or whatever. The only way I manage to navigate this at all, especially in ways I consider ethical and mutually respectful of each others' humanity, is by being as honest and clear as I possibly can be, and to pay attention to what I've learned to recognize as warning signs of trainwreck potential, and not give in to the temptation to get involved with appealing people who would be really bad matches for me. And rejection is the price of exploration, either for me or for the other person, the majority of the time. That's how it works. I'm ok with that, but I hate it when it's something that gets under the other person's skin more intensely. Hurting people, even unavoidably, sucks. (my personal ethics are "never intentionally cause unnecessary pain", but sometimes it's unintentional, sometimes it's necessary)
And I try to be clear about how sex works for me... I don't sleep with someone unless I'm entirely certain I want to (and that it's not some horrible idea for some other reason). It's extremely rare for me to even kiss someone that I wouldn't take to bed, often immediately, if the circumstances allow. It means that first date for me is really all conversation. Once in a great while that ends in sex, and those people tend to remain my lovers for extended periods of time. I don't do gratuitous goodnight kisses, or messing around just because, or anything. It just isn't how I work. Either I'm sexually interested, or I'm not. Conversation is how I tell; it's why I don't do the bar and club scene; too loud for me to tell anything relevant to me about the other people. But when someone turns on my brain in the right way, it's on. A three hour conversation about the First Amendment lead to me taking P to bed the first time. With M, in college, it was talking physics and art. I'm usually about 80% accurate on whether I'm going to be sexually interested in someone solely based on IM conversations. A frequent refrain around my house: "Mmmmm... sexy, sexy braiiiiiins!" (also, "Mmmmm.... sexy, sexy politics!")
The good date last night, with D, was about four and a half hours of conversation, and if I wasn't expecting I'd have to be at work this morning (so much for that), I would've gladly stayed longer and seen just how mutual the interest is. Mmmmm.... sexy, sexy brains... I like how he thinks. I'm really psyched.
And rather randomly, I ended up clicking well enough with a guy who's coming into town for a concert next week that we've got a date to hang out in person. Don't know where it's likely to go, since I rarely get into things that are likely to be one-time, but I'm looking forward to the hanging out, regardless.
Very cute comment from my partner S, when we were trying to figure out scheduling some time around my recent spate of dates: "Hey, I'm just happy to be on the team"
I'm damned lucky in the partners I've found.
(all of this gets way more complicated when it's an interest in someone who's already a friend -- that's a whole different ball of wax)
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no subject
Date: 2009-07-08 08:43 pm (UTC)Things that make me go hmmmmmmm...
no subject
Date: 2009-07-09 02:39 pm (UTC)Platonic primary is especially meaningful to me because of how my life has always worked, in terms of creating small family groups. Most folks eventually leave those to form more traditional "parents and children" families, but some of us want to continue living like this; groupings of friends with a commitment to each other. It shows in how I handle housemates, and finances, and everything else. Some housemates are more interwoven in the permanent family dynamic than others, but in general, it's not the typical "you owe X, and if you can't contribute it, you may not have a place to live". I wouldn't kick out a housemate for being broke any more than I'd kick out a spouse. As long as everyone's living in the spirit of the household, and making what contributions they can, in whatever ways work, we figure out how to handle it as a team.
And one of the things I've learned about myself, in regards to finding primary partners (of the more traditional romantic sort) is that we really have to be on the same page about that kind of stuff. Fundamentally, I'm a deeply communal socialist in my personal life. It's a bad idea, and creates many tensions, for me to interweave my life with someone who's coming from a very different underlying viewpoint. I discovered this when I seriously dated a guy I'd describe as a very generous capitalist. Our behaviors looked similar on the surface, but the way we framed them in our own heads was totally different, and that eventually lead to problems. Fundamentally, I don't run an internal balance sheet, and it leads to very different conclusions about things.
Very different
Date: 2009-07-09 09:03 pm (UTC)I like the concept of communal socialist. I think it describes me too.
Re: Very different
Date: 2009-07-09 09:26 pm (UTC)Re: Very different
Date: 2009-07-09 09:37 pm (UTC)I did the "traditional thing" with my second husband; daddy, mommy, 2 kids for 12 years and tried my damndest to make it work, but it went against my essential happy hippy nature and it eventually fell apart. My boys are essentially grown at 16 and 21 and I have no desire(or ability thanks to a tubal ligation) for more much as I loved them, I'm not a maternal person, that energy is given almost totally to my patients and when I go home I want to be able to be a bit selfish.
Ohh getting wordy here..eek
Re: Very different
Date: 2009-07-09 09:43 pm (UTC)I often say that I'm inflexible, but tolerant. I live well with almost anyone who can comfortably live with me; I can adapt to just about anything except endangering my critters. But I'm quite set in my ways, and when those ways are going to make the other person unhappy, it's going to be a bad scene.
no subject
Date: 2009-07-08 09:31 pm (UTC)Thank you for existing. ;)
no subject
Date: 2009-07-09 02:41 pm (UTC)I just wrote a big long comment reply to the comment above yours about the whole platonic primary thing, if it helps clarify some of how I think about it. I love poking around ideas and dissecting them, though, so feel free to ask whatever you like about how it works in my life.
no subject
Date: 2009-07-08 11:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-09 02:44 pm (UTC)And speaking of sexy politics and sexy brains... *points to icon*
no subject
Date: 2009-07-09 02:27 pm (UTC)Interesting take on primary that may just help me suss through some stuff.
Thanks for sharing. :)
no subject
Date: 2009-07-09 02:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-12 06:02 pm (UTC)http://www.billytackett.com/picfannie.html
no subject
Date: 2009-07-13 04:57 pm (UTC)